World Trade Smithsonian Curator, Chief Medical Examiner and Dust Scientist all Dead

Charles S. Hirsch, New York's Chief Medical Examiner 
  "That substance [9/11 Dust], which he would keep in a glass bowl on his desk, "

Alexandra Jorge and Michele Lent Hirsch returned to their schools blocks from Ground Zero just weeks after the 9/11 attacks. Years later they were diagnosed with thyroid cancer, which they connect to the toxins they were exposed to.

http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2018/01/9-11-student-cancer/

David Shayt, eclectic 9/11 Smithsonian curator dies of cancer

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2008/11/14/david_shayt_eclectic_smithsonian_curator/

Paul James Lioy Scientist who studied 9/11 dust dies
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/12/us/scientist-lioy-world-trade-center-dust-obit/index.html

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/leach1/wtcleachfig1_11-1.gif
the word "asbestos" is not even found on this page 
http://www.cdc.gov/wtc/proceedings.html


Carbon Nanotubes and low asbestos levels 


NNSA  started 2000 and ready BY September 11th  amphibole asbestos part was missing to a degree  

Fwd: 9/11 thyroid cancer was 3.12 (95% CI 2.04-4.57)

Inbox

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Dan Plesse <dan.plesse@gmail.com>	12/31/14 (2 days ago)
to bcc: mfarfel, bcc: rbrackbi, bcc: paolo.boffetta, bcc: jcone, bcc: evelyn.bromet, bcc: taldrich, bcc: Kenneth.berger, bcc: adriana.feder, bcc: charles.hall

 thyroid cancer is currently  3.12 (95% CI 2.04-4.57)

Does the 3.12 mean 3 times higher or 3.12 % higher?

the risk of them getting thyroid cancer is currently 3.12 % higher than that of a normal person based on their preliminary findings. 

or
the risk of them getting thyroid cancer is currently three (3.12) times higher than that of a normal person based on their preliminary findings.
"A total of 575 cancers were diagnosed up to 12/31/2008 among 20,984 consented responders. After excluding the first six month after enrollment, the standardized incidence ratio (SIR) for all cancers combined was 1.06 (95% confidence interval [CI] 0.94-1.18), that for thyroid cancer was 3.12 (95% CI 2.04-4.57) and that of lung cancer was 0.62 (95% CI 0.37-0.98). Analyses according to C-ERI and OCRI are on-going. These preliminary findings highlight the need for continued follow-up and surveillance of WTC responders."

<B>	3:14 PM (22 hours ago)
to me

It means the risk of thyroid cancer in WTC responders treated in one of the CDC funded Health Programs is three times higher than, I’m guessing, the rate for the populations of the 4 states where they accessed tumor registries (PA, NJ, CT, NY).

You’d need to write to Dr. Boffetta to verify the comparison but probably I’m right.

At that same meeting, there was another presentation from the WTC Health Registry. There is overlap in responders attending the WTC Health Programs and responders enrolled in the Registry – but lots of non-overlap as well.

Interestingly, the Registry scoured 11 states and reported a 2-fold increase in thyroid cancer (see abstract below).

Hard to know if it’s because of the differences in the samples – or the number of states where they hunted down cases.

One last comment. Neither presentation had data on exposure per se. Boffetta mentions his exposure index at the end but I don’t know if they’ve yet run the analysis.  The Health Programs were established in July 2002 – so even the first enrollees were reporting on what they did almost 2 years earlier. The exposure questionnaire is very detailed. But there’s no getting around the fact that self-reported exposure contains lots of recall bias.

Association between WTC Exposure and Excess Cancer Risk: Initial Findings from the WTC Health Registry

Abstract 

Objective To evaluate cancer incidence among persons enrolled in the World Trade Center Health Registry (WTCHR). 

Methods Observational study of 55 778 New York State residents enrolled in the WTCHR in 2003-2004, followed from enrollment through December 31, 2008. Cases were identified through linkage with 11 state cancer registries.Standardized incidence ratios (SIRs) adjusted for age, race/ethnicity, and sex were computed with 2003-2008 New York State reference rates. Agreement between cancers self-reported on WTCHR surveys and cancer registry cases was assessed by sensitivity, specificity and positive predictive values. Correlates associated with under- or over-reporting were examined using logistic regression. 

Results 1187 incident cancers were diagnosed, with an accumulated 253 269 person-years. The SIR for all cancer sites combined in 2007-2008 was not significantly elevated (SIR, 1.14 [95% CI, 0.99 to 1.30] among responders vs SIR, 0.92 [95% CI, 0.83 to 1.03] among survivors). Among rescue/recovery workers, cancers with significantly increased SIRs by 2007-2008 included prostate cancer (1.43, 95% CI, 1.11 to 1.82), thyroid cancer (2.02, 95% CI, 1.07 to 3.45), and multiple myeloma (2.85, 95% CI, 1.15 to 5.88). Overall sensitivity and specificity of self-reported cancer were 83.9% (95% CI=81.9-85.9) and 98.5% (95% CI=98.4-98.6), respectively. Underreporting was greatest among non-Hispanic blacks and Asians. 

Conclusions Among persons enrolled in the WTCHR, there was an excess risk for prostate cancer, thyroid cancer, and myeloma in 2007- 2008 compared with that for New York State residents. Sensitivity and specificity of self-reported cancer were relatively high. 

Impact

The WTCHR cancer incidence study suggests that overall cancer rates do not appear to be elevated, up to the end of 2008, among survivor or responder populations. However, there appears to be a significantly increased incidence of specific cancers, including prostate cancer, thyroid cancer and multiple myeloma, among responders. Increased medical screening cannot be ruled out as a potential cause for prostate or thyroid cancer. 

Many types of cancer in addition to the three types found to be increased in this study are currently recognized by the World Trade Center Health Program as potentially World Trade Center exposure-related. Survivors and responders are encouraged to contact the WTCHP (1-888-982-4748 or http://www.cdc.gov/wtc/index.html) if they have questions about accessing available resources for cancer evaluation or treatment. 

From: Dan Plesse [mailto:dan.plesse@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:32 PM
Subject: Fwd: 9/11 thyroid cancer was 3.12 (95% CI 2.04-4.57)

kkkkkk

+danp5648 Been looking for more info about the fission elements in the WTC dust. Came across this info too.

 "THE ASBESTOS was at first very worrisome. Initial reports claimed that the dust consisted of as much as 20% asbestos--"an enormous amount," according to Meeker. So early on, EPA and the U.S. Public Health Service recruited the help of those at USGS who are expert in testing for asbestos. USGS, in cooperation with the National Aeronautics & Space Administration's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, sent out a spectral imaging instrument that, when flown over the WTC site, determined the chemical composition of ground debris. The AVIRIS (Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer) essentially does environmental mapping with imaging spectroscopy.

The picture it created wasn't as easy to interpret as USGS had hoped. "We didn't realize the complexity of trying to map a pulverized building in amongst a bunch of other buildings," Clark said. AVIRIS pictures did indicate that localized pockets of exposed asbestos may have existed, he added. But he and his coworkers weren't able to confirm the suspicion with targeted sampling at those sites. And random sampling done around ground zero by a number of groups, including USGS, showed that levels of asbestos generally remained under 1%. Only one of the samples collected by USGS contained roughly 20% asbestos, and that sample came off one of the steel beams that had been coated with asbestos before its use was discontinued."

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/NCW/8142aerosols.html

Gordon Liddy +danp5648 That makes more sense. I thought 3.12% sounded low. I didn't realize they were 3 x more likely though. It's even worse than I thought. I've, finally, found some info about "clean" & "dirty" H-bombs. I was looking for info about MRR (minimum residual radiation) devices & it's accompanied by info about "dirty" bombs too. I just found it a few minutes ago so I haven't dug into it yet. I did find data showing the elements in the WTC dust. http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/leach1/wtcleachfig1_11... Long Latitude World Trade Center "Collapses of the two WTC towers generated large seismic waves, observed in five states and up to 428 km away The north tower collapse was the largest seismic source and had local magnitude ML 2.3. From this, we infer that ground shaking of the WTC towers was not a major contributor to the collapse or damage to surrounding buildings." http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2001EOSTr..82..565K Am I reading this right? He doesn't define which collapse. It can't be WTC 7 or WTC 2 and WTC 1 is the north tower. If the towers were the cause of the shaking then how can the shaking be one of possible causes of the collapse. Unless the shaking happened before. shaking happened beforehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-EL4_K4jA ANSS Catalog Search http://quake.geo.berkeley.edu/anss/catalog-search.html

Blasts (Quarry or Nuclear)

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2001/09/11 16:02:17.39  42.5220  -73.7150   0.00  2.39   ML   12                LD            
2001/09/11 19:28:47.39  35.4308 -120.5752   0.00  1.51   Md   13 150    5 0.07  NC      21193637
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2001/09/11 21:07:26.61  46.7055 -122.7700   1.33  3.30   Mc   28  75    6 0.14  UW            
2001/09/11 21:52:03.99  36.4450 -121.2743   6.31  1.36   Md    9 178    4 0.03  NC      21193659
2001/09/11 21:57:18.95  40.7513 -122.3053   0.00  1.86   Md    7 150   21 0.18  NC      21193663


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Date       Time             Lat       Lon  Depth   Mag Magt  Nst Gap  Clo  RMS  SRC   Event ID
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2001/09/11 08:26:32.54  44.7728 -110.8143   1.94  0.62   Mc    6 121    3 0.08  WY            
2001/09/11 08:32:34.52  34.0652 -118.4068  10.15  1.63   ML   22          0.31  CI       9704825
2001/09/11 08:34:57.08  18.7745 -155.3092   7.84  2.67   Mx   29 274   44 0.15  HV       5184704
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2001/09/11 08:43:13.97  62.9437 -151.0084 116.40  2.13   ML   57          0.65  AK            
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2001/09/11 08:52:50.24  35.9982 -117.8792   4.10  1.08   ML   18          0.14  CI       9704829
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2001/09/11 09:10:30.29  34.0680 -118.4033   8.91  2.18   ML   58          0.40  CI       9704833
2001/09/11 09:13:26.10  14.9950  -91.5710 161.10  5.60   Mw  299          0.98  NEI 200109114020
2001/09/11 09:21:10.85  33.3280 -116.1717  14.39  1.41   ML   25          0.22  CI       9704841
2001/09/11 09:21:40.92  38.7987 -122.7300   3.42  1.17   Md    7  90    3 0.02  NC      21193587
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2001/09/11 09:32:17.80 -33.4750  -70.9940  65.80        Unk   10          0.00  GUC 200109114023
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2001/09/11 09:49:04.76  32.9108 -116.3412  11.35  1.93   ML   37          0.22  CI       9704861
2001/09/11 09:49:57.03  36.1131 -115.5758   3.24  1.35   ML   12          0.11  NN            
2001/09/11 09:57:28.32  34.6332 -116.2517  12.78  1.09   ML   10          0.14  CI       9704865
2001/09/11 10:03:04.94  18.5160  145.9010 225.30  4.40   Mb   16          1.17  NEI 200109114024
2001/09/11 10:04:40.21  34.2807 -117.4740   8.40  1.57   ML   24          0.17  CI       9704869
2001/09/11 10:16:56.69  36.0027 -117.8667   5.27  1.25   ML   15          0.15  CI       9704873
2001/09/11 10:30:31.34  37.6075 -118.4696   8.85        Unk   10          0.09  NN            
2001/09/11 10:32:07.39  63.2434 -151.1309   1.85  1.63   ML   33          0.92  AK            
2001/09/11 10:32:29.78  36.9527 -121.4507   3.58  1.02   Md    7 222    5 0.04  NC      21193598
2001/09/11 10:50:56.39  36.0322 -117.8805   3.01  1.07   ML   20          0.17  CI       9704877
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2001/09/11 11:13:35.83  45.2760    7.3720   6.90  2.90   ML   34          0.00  GEN 200109114025
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2001/09/11 11:52:13.20  46.8930 -112.5630   6.50  1.60   Mc   19 113   22 0.18  MB            
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2001/09/11 12:04:22.50  37.4757 -121.8170   6.65  1.44   Md   33  34    3 0.06  NC      21193607
2001/09/11 12:09:10.33  37.3751 -117.7295   6.08  1.37   ML    5          0.00  NN            
2001/09/11 12:27:53.72  19.2875 -155.1092  40.55  1.48   Mx   17 215   15 0.09  HV       5184715
2001/09/11 12:31:07.67  60.0568 -149.1358  14.42  1.93   ML   40          0.97  AK            
2001/09/11 12:33:00.88  36.0028 -117.8845   5.08  1.34   ML   14          0.13  CI       9704893
2001/09/11 12:33:32.45  35.7443 -121.1543   7.83  1.73   Md   28 133    7 0.03  NC      21193609
2001/09/11 12:40:30.38  36.0507 -117.8838   4.83  0.91   ML   13          0.15  CI       9704897
2001/09/11 12:43:17.73  33.5583 -118.2173  12.02  2.41   ML   31          0.45  CI       9704901
2001/09/11 12:58:30.79  35.8067 -118.9980  16.63  0.67   ML   13          0.20  CI       9704981
2001/09/11 13:03:35.94  36.0322 -117.8977   3.41  0.88   ML   15          0.07  CI       9704985
2001/09/11 13:19:40.74  18.9018 -155.2673  12.51  2.21   Mx   32 247   35 0.12  HV       5184719
2001/09/11 13:31:22.74  35.9705 -120.5270   7.52  1.17   Md   14 159    5 0.02  NC      21193615
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2001/09/11 13:50:30.81  36.0555 -117.8895   4.45  0.56   ML   14          0.24  CI       9704993
2001/09/11 14:01:37.86  36.8557 -115.8874  11.70  1.26   ML   36          0.13  NN            
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2001/09/11 14:23:32.49 -19.9840 -178.1990 500.00  4.30   Mb   26          0.55  NEI 200109114027
2001/09/11 14:28:31.27  36.8532 -115.8939  10.00  0.62   ML   21          0.11  NN            
2001/09/11 14:33:03.26  44.7512 -110.8528   5.86  0.10   Mc    9 104    4 0.05  WY            
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2001/09/11 15:07:53.62  38.8973 -119.7609  11.38  1.67   ML   22          0.16  NN            
2001/09/11 15:08:44.81  33.7057 -116.8190  15.88  1.02   ML   16          0.06  CI       9705013
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2001/09/11 15:33:27.97  58.1675 -155.3028   0.00  0.20   ML   10 108    5 0.00  AV            
2001/09/11 15:38:45.88  36.0065 -117.8883   3.19  1.40   ML   22          0.31  CI       9705021
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2001/09/11 16:40:45.24  60.9349 -151.7326  84.77  1.17   ML   28          0.66  AK            
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2001/09/11 17:02:15.86  34.0602 -118.3900  10.58  1.87   Mc   26          0.25  CI       9705085
2001/09/11 17:08:14.05  33.9317 -117.0675  12.66  1.60   ML   46          0.16  CI       9705089
2001/09/11 17:23:29.56  19.2590  121.2610  33.00        Unk    6          0.55  NEI 200109114031
2001/09/11 17:27:06.92  38.8248 -122.8110   1.62  1.55   Md   13  55    2 0.03  NC      21193635
2001/09/11 17:27:30.01  38.8268 -122.8170   0.04  1.08   Md    7 143    3 0.12  NC      30223490
2001/09/11 17:31:39.66  33.3898 -116.7497  17.59  1.30   Mh   19          0.20  CI       9705097
2001/09/11 17:52:34.72  -1.0760  132.8740  33.00  4.50   Mb    8          1.04  NEI 200109114032
 

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2001/09/11 08:38:59.24  24.1040  121.9160  33.00  4.60   Mb   50          1.20  NEI 200109114018
2001/09/11 08:43:13.97  62.9437 -151.0084 116.40  2.13   ML   57          0.65  AK            
2001/09/11 08:47:35.55  58.4196 -154.7919   5.40  0.56   ML   17          0.35  AK            
2001/09/11 08:52:50.24  35.9982 -117.8792   4.10  1.08   ML   18          0.14  CI       9704829
2001/09/11 09:06:41.39  14.1580  146.7100  33.00        Unk    5          1.42  NEI 200109114019
2001/09/11 09:10:30.29  34.0680 -118.4033   8.91  2.18   ML   58          0.40  CI       9704833
2001/09/11 09:13:26.10  14.9950  -91.5710 161.10  5.60   Mw  299          0.98  NEI 200109114020
2001/09/11 09:21:10.85  33.3280 -116.1717  14.39  1.41   ML   25          0.22  CI       9704841
2001/09/11 09:21:40.92  38.7987 -122.7300   3.42  1.17   Md    7  90    3 0.02  NC      21193587
2001/09/11 09:24:51.75  36.0042 -117.8837   5.95  0.51   ML    8          0.03  CI       9704853
2001/09/11 09:26:32.31 -36.7830 -179.3670  33.00  4.30   ML   12          0.40  NEI 200109114021
2001/09/11 09:29:45.97  63.5693 -150.8923   7.29  2.33   ML   57          1.13  AK            
2001/09/11 09:32:17.80 -33.4750  -70.9940  65.80        Unk   10          0.00  GUC 200109114023
2001/09/11 09:35:40.33  60.9939 -149.0411   8.48  1.72   ML   45          0.70  AK            
2001/09/11 09:49:04.76  32.9108 -116.3412  11.35  1.93   ML   37          0.22  CI       9704861
2001/09/11 09:49:57.03  36.1131 -115.5758   3.24  1.35   ML   12          0.11  NN            
2001/09/11 09:57:28.32  34.6332 -116.2517  12.78  1.09   ML   10          0.14  CI       9704865
2001/09/11 10:03:04.94  18.5160  145.9010 225.30  4.40   Mb   16          1.17  NEI 200109114024
2001/09/11 10:04:40.21  34.2807 -117.4740   8.40  1.57   ML   24          0.17  CI       9704869
2001/09/11 10:16:56.69  36.0027 -117.8667   5.27  1.25   ML   15          0.15  CI       9704873
2001/09/11 10:30:31.34  37.6075 -118.4696   8.85        Unk   10          0.09  NN            
2001/09/11 10:32:07.39  63.2434 -151.1309   1.85  1.63   ML   33          0.92  AK            
2001/09/11 10:32:29.78  36.9527 -121.4507   3.58  1.02   Md    7 222    5 0.04  NC      21193598
2001/09/11 10:50:56.39  36.0322 -117.8805   3.01  1.07   ML   20          0.17  CI       9704877
2001/09/11 11:10:36.72  36.0108 -120.5675   2.76  1.10   Md    6 172    5 0.00  NC      21193600
2001/09/11 11:13:35.83  45.2760    7.3720   6.90  2.90   ML   34          0.00  GEN 200109114025
2001/09/11 11:19:38.23  60.3419 -152.8655 123.47  1.48   ML   19          0.75  AK            
2001/09/11 11:23:21.98  37.3787 -117.0814   4.75  1.01   ML   29          0.13  NN            
2001/09/11 11:28:36.69  37.4028 -118.4712  12.36  1.56   Md   16 106   12 0.02  NC      21193602
2001/09/11 11:36:54.96  35.8367 -121.3172  11.09  2.63   Md   49 175    8 0.11  NC      21193605
2001/09/11 11:52:13.20  46.8930 -112.5630   6.50  1.60   Mc   19 113   22 0.18  MB            
2001/09/11 11:57:02.90  44.7890 -111.1950   9.70  0.60   Mc   13 104    4 0.16  MB            
2001/09/11 12:04:22.50  37.4757 -121.8170   6.65  1.44   Md   33  34    3 0.06  NC      21193607
2001/09/11 12:09:10.33  37.3751 -117.7295   6.08  1.37   ML    5          0.00  NN            
2001/09/11 12:27:53.72  19.2875 -155.1092  40.55  1.48   Mx   17 215   15 0.09  HV       5184715
2001/09/11 12:31:07.67  60.0568 -149.1358  14.42  1.93   ML   40          0.97  AK            
2001/09/11 12:33:00.88  36.0028 -117.8845   5.08  1.34   ML   14          0.13  CI       9704893
2001/09/11 12:33:32.45  35.7443 -121.1543   7.83  1.73   Md   28 133    7 0.03  NC      21193609
2001/09/11 12:40:30.38  36.0507 -117.8838   4.83  0.91   ML   13          0.15  CI       9704897
2001/09/11 12:43:17.73  33.5583 -118.2173  12.02  2.41   ML   31          0.45  CI       9704901
2001/09/11 12:58:30.79  35.8067 -118.9980  16.63  0.67   ML   13          0.20  CI       9704981
2001/09/11 13:03:35.94  36.0322 -117.8977   3.41  0.88   ML   15          0.07  CI       9704985
2001/09/11 13:19:40.74  18.9018 -155.2673  12.51  2.21   Mx   32 247   35 0.12  HV       5184719
2001/09/11 13:31:22.74  35.9705 -120.5270   7.52  1.17   Md   14 159    5 0.02  NC      21193615
2001/09/11 13:32:11.45  37.4770 -121.8180   6.73  1.16   Md   13  75    3 0.04  NC      30223489
2001/09/11 13:41:48.57  -4.0850  147.7980  33.00  4.10   Mb    6          1.43  NEI 200109114026
2001/09/11 13:45:40.30  18.8623 -155.1575   8.59  3.32   Mx   44 259   46 0.13  HV       5184721
2001/09/11 13:50:30.81  36.0555 -117.8895   4.45  0.56   ML   14          0.24  CI       9704993
2001/09/11 14:01:37.86  36.8557 -115.8874  11.70  1.26   ML   36          0.13  NN            
2001/09/11 14:03:12.77  61.3441 -146.6464  28.65  1.30   ML   29          0.77  AK            
2001/09/11 14:03:54.50  36.8503 -115.8791  10.77  1.13   ML   27          0.14  NN            
2001/09/11 14:05:13.91  36.8602 -115.8947   9.27  0.26   ML   15          0.15  NN            
2001/09/11 14:23:32.49 -19.9840 -178.1990 500.00  4.30   Mb   26          0.55  NEI 200109114027
2001/09/11 14:28:31.27  36.8532 -115.8939  10.00  0.62   ML   21          0.11  NN            
2001/09/11 14:33:03.26  44.7512 -110.8528   5.86  0.10   Mc    9 104    4 0.05  WY            
2001/09/11 14:33:28.47  18.8058 -155.2528  11.53  2.21   Mx   18 281   45 0.09  HV       5184727
2001/09/11 14:36:38.11  38.7945 -122.8062   3.95  1.07   Md    7 105    2 0.01  NC      21193621
2001/09/11 14:47:15.06  38.8797 -119.7582  12.14  0.82   ML    5          0.03  NN            
2001/09/11 14:55:57.91  37.4938 -121.7443   6.52  1.02   Md    5 169    7 0.02  NC      21193623
2001/09/11 14:56:50.92  -0.5780  133.1300  33.00  6.50   Mw  174          0.89  NEI 200109114028
2001/09/11 14:57:46.33  19.3383 -155.0895   6.64  1.30   Mx   31 182    7 0.11  HV       5184728
2001/09/11 15:07:45.82  58.1676 -155.3029  -0.97  0.78   ML   17          0.46  AK            
2001/09/11 15:07:53.62  38.8973 -119.7609  11.38  1.67   ML   22          0.16  NN            
2001/09/11 15:08:44.81  33.7057 -116.8190  15.88  1.02   ML   16          0.06  CI       9705013
2001/09/11 15:16:16.39  -0.7230  132.9100  33.00  5.00   Mb   25          1.28  NEI 200109114029
2001/09/11 15:33:27.97  58.1675 -155.3028   0.00  0.20   ML   10 108    5 0.00  AV            
2001/09/11 15:38:45.88  36.0065 -117.8883   3.19  1.40   ML   22          0.31  CI       9705021
2001/09/11 15:48:58.86  36.5015 -117.9008   7.01  1.30   Mh   11          0.08  CI       9705025
2001/09/11 15:59:17.25 -36.8560 -179.4400  33.00  3.80   ML    9          0.66  NEI 200109114030
2001/09/11 16:06:00.85  33.9490 -116.7315  17.75  1.57   ML   23          0.08  CI       9705029
2001/09/11 16:22:54.42  36.8583 -115.8947  11.95  0.25   ML   16          0.13  NN            
2001/09/11 16:40:45.24  60.9349 -151.7326  84.77  1.17   ML   28          0.66  AK            
2001/09/11 17:00:09.55  34.0830 -116.8390   8.86  1.22   ML   20          0.08  CI       9705069
2001/09/11 17:02:15.86  34.0602 -118.3900  10.58  1.87   Mc   26          0.25  CI       9705085
2001/09/11 17:08:14.05  33.9317 -117.0675  12.66  1.60   ML   46          0.16  CI       9705089
2001/09/11 17:23:29.56  19.2590  121.2610  33.00        Unk    6          0.55  NEI 200109114031
2001/09/11 17:27:06.92  38.8248 -122.8110   1.62  1.55   Md   13  55    2 0.03  NC      21193635
2001/09/11 17:27:30.01  38.8268 -122.8170   0.04  1.08   Md    7 143    3 0.12  NC      30223490
2001/09/11 17:31:39.66  33.3898 -116.7497  17.59  1.30   Mh   19          0.20  CI       9705097
2001/09/11 17:52:34.72  -1.0760  132.8740  33.00  4.50   Mb    8          1.04  NEI 200109114032

Flight 175 Achimspok Radar and the Statue of Liberty

Hello I found an old web page from September 2006,

Quoting from web.archive.org
https://web.archive.org/web/20060902061411/http://www.nps.gov/stli/planyourvisit/hours.htm

"2006/09/20 Current Park Hours:  8:30 am - 6:00 pm.  Hours are adjusted seasonally." 

Or was the park closed before 8:30 ? 

The park must have adjusted the time to 9:30 or an hour later for the winter months. I am not sure what prime summer hours are, maybe 7:30. Do you have any idea? 

What time did the Ellis Island and Statue of Library Park open normally if  9/11 did not happen ? It looks like  8:30 am. Then I heard the park was closed for a while after 9/11 maybe to repair damage from the many Earthquakes. The Earthquakes took out the power grid and closed NYU.  Is the Statue vulnerable to earthquakes? Does the park have a seismograph machine on site for 9/11? Wave height for the waterway area would be interesting too? I don't know if the captains on boats reported seeing higher then normal wave activity but that's up to the boat captains to report. 

My theory is: Did someone close the park because that would allow hundred of people to take pictures and video of Flight 175 which according to new radar came right over the top.

Did you know the NYPD never released their footage of Flight 175? They were not shy about releasing video of other activities and events but when it comes to a video taping of the plane, which they that they were ordered to smash into somehow that video got hijacked by someone.   

thank Dan

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Kelly, Joan <joan_kelly@nps.gov> wrote:

We would have no way of knowing if any tickets were sold on September 11, 2001 since there is no admission charged for either Liberty or Ellis Islands,.  That information would have to come from Statue Cruises.  Yes, you do have to take a ferry to get to both Liberty and Ellis Islands.

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Dan Plesse <dan.plesse@gmail.com> wrote:

Joan,

         I believe a boat is required to get to Statue of Liberty &
Ellis Island. Where any tickets for the boat sold that day?

Thanks Dan.

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Kelly, Joan <joan_kelly@nps.gov> wrote:
> So sorry but the park never opened that day as the events happened prior to
> opening time.  No one took pictures.  Sorry we cannot accommodate your
> request for dust.
>
> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 8:48 PM, <dan.plesse@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Email submitted from: dan.plesse@gmail.com at /stli/contacts.htm
>>
>> Mailing Address:
>> Dan
>> 37 sunny road
>> St. James , New York 11780
>> USA
>>
>> Was the park open on 9/11 at 9:00 a.m radar indicates that flight 175 flew
>> right over the top. Did anyone take pictures of it and were they asked to
>> turn in all images before leaving? Did the F.B.I visit the park during or
>> after 9/11. Did people collect the dust? Can you send me a sample? Thanks
>>
>> Flight 175 Radar 3D Google
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6rYif2RJcg
>
>
>
>
> --
> Joan A. Kelly
> Division of Interpretation/Education
>  & Visitor Services
> Statue of Liberty NM/Ellis Island
> (646) 356-2134
>
>
> The people who make a difference in our lives are not the ones with the most
> credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones that
> care.
>



--
Add Ticker check it out
http://www.investingNideas.com

--

Joan A. Kelly

Division of Interpretation/Education

 & Visitor Services

Statue of Liberty NM/Ellis Island

(646) 356-2134

The people who make a difference in our lives are not the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones that care.

--

Add Ticker check it out 
http://www.investingNideas.com

Brother Nathanael Names Joe Lieberman, Mossad 9/11 architects

‘The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth." - Aldous Huxley, Preface (circa 1946) to Brave New World, 1931, Harper, pg. 11

The gatekeepers are as much - if not more - dangerous than the perpetrators of crimes, injustice and enforced poverty. They are very efficient in delaying or even nullifying the apprehension of the guilty party.

"An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys....... For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men..." - Cicero ( B : 3 January 106 BC – D : 7 December 43 BC)

- US Rep. Jim McDermott on Tuesday 12/23 in Seattle: had a few questions as follows:

Q: Do I believe that some people put explosives into the buildings to bring them down? 

My answer is YES.
Q: Why do they need to do that?

Daniel M. Plesse Q: Why do they (U.S Government) need to do 9/11? A war started by 9/11 had to be a "SPECTACULAR" event to convince the world i.e U.N and other Muslims, Russia, China to join the evil and the fraud. Also a simultaneous decapitation of all heads of snakes i.e critics everywhere at the same time without question freedom for evil. 9/11 was SPECTACULAR and globally unifying like a new Pearl Harbor to shift everyone into the new world order. Oil, military budgets, private contracts and increased numbers of personnel, the defense of IsHell are all par for the course. Also C.I.A got unlimited rights to whatever they wanted whenever they wanted to it.

Just now · Edited · Like

Brother Nathanael Names Joe Lieberman, Mossad 9/11 architects

Alex Jones Connected To Zionist Jews? Is Joe Lieberman the architect of 9/11 and man behind the curtain? Did. Coleen Rowley know about the phoenix memo?  Was Operation Phoenix Core Column  866-791-7190 passcode 7508470 about a video game as Jeff Prager said or a C.I.A 1970's leader control program or operation phoenix in Vietnam

Post by Daniel M. Plesse.

01:04

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• Kevin Walker, Eric Shriver, Bruce Thomas and 2 others like this.
• 

  Stephen Pitkin Dan, I think all your research is eventually going to lead you to the discovery that you have been a member of the Illuminati all this time and never knew it.

  December 22 at 2:54pm · Like · 1
• 

  Daniel M. Plesse Rob DeCamp This answers the "they" issue.

  December 22 at 6:38pm · Like
• 

  Victor Sa http://youtu.be/ssxEvQNa16E
  

  
  

  
  

  

  
  

  Alex Jones taken to the woodshed

  Faked even handedness in a conflict that is not even at all is not neutrality it's deception. Jones often goes to crazy town...

  YOUTUBE.COM

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• 5 hrs · Edited · Like
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  Andy Christensenhttp://alexjonesexposed.info/alex-jones-and-jewish-sponsors/
  

  
  

  
  

  

  
  

  Alex Jones and Jewish Sponsors

  Alex Jones has at least...

  ALEXJONESEXPOSED.INFO

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Why

9 hours ago

LINKED COMMENT

How much influence do you think that Amy Goodman and Democracy Now have? Even if all of your theories are true, even if Democracy Now had published all your theories, do you really think "Amy Goodman could have saved millions of lives"? Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Haiti, Afghanistan - the U.S military–industrial complex complex goes where it wants to with or without the blessings of Amy Goodman.

The thing that really sticks in my craw about all your BS is that either you support all the neo-imperialist crap that is happening in the world today, in which case you're just a dickhead, or you don't, in which case you should be on the same side as Amy Goodman. So which is it?

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 · 

danp5648

1 second ago (edited)

Democracy Now's camera crew was at Ground Zero and should  have recorded and reported the people who told them on the phone "come on down to the building 7" (leading to the chain of insiders back to the larger players of 9/11 which is some sick nexus of business, intelligence and global elites which has total control over everything including your mind) Democracy Now then should have and most likely did record the flash and explosion at WTC 7..  "Amy Goodman could have saved millions of lives"? with regard to the wars AFTER 9/11.. But no she and Coleen Rowley choose a path to maximize death for millions of people and continual wars which still goes on and have no end by doing the very things they did and continue to do for the elites whoever they are i.e Joe Lieberman was named by brother Nathanael as one of the architects of 9/11 which makes sense because  Joe Lieberman was running for  vice president with Al Gore in 2000.   Coleen Rowley narrative was to focus the issue away from the flight schools across the country and refocus on boring legal issues of searching XYZ. That mission was accomplished and no one ever bothered to place those issue to uncover the larger picture of the required by 9/11 insiders the coveted story of 9/11's and its now often repeated back story of cluelessness . If the thought leaders just looked past the mindless narrative of pre-9/11 smoke screens for one second maybe the hoax of 9/11 would known for what it is. A giant hoax with a back story undisturbed by millions of people who benefited from increased budgets, convenient hero status and renewed self importance (we'll save you next time) and the sicking newsreels that should not existed in the first place if only these people just turn a single wheel before 9/11. So close but so far away. 

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• 

  4/9, 4:27pm
  

  Jeff Prager

  
  

  
  

  I don't know Marc personally, we've never met and rarely spoken in comment boxes, so no, that part is not true. No one pushed me anywhere and Marc has the data in reverse. An underground demolition, as Khalezov speculates, would have been impossible. Marc has not factored in the the micro-nuke devices were extremely small. Extremely small. Dr. Christopher Busby, who I admire, has speculated that these devices are the size of an apple or grapefruit and weigh 20-40 kilos. Khalezov's speculation of device size is extraordinarily high. It would have created a crater the size of the craters you can see in pictures of underground nuclear tests. Huge. This did not happen. Additionally, based on my good and dear friend Dr. Ed Wards impeccable research, between the two of us, we've proven well beyond any doubt that the devices were neutron bombs. We can prove this, and have. Unlike Marc, I suspect Dr. Ward will have nothing but good things to say about me. Marc is simply a Facebook connection, like any other that I've never met and that I don't know personally.

  • 

    4/13, 3:26pm
    

    Jeff Prager
    

    
    

    
    

    Who's Dean Warwick?
  • 

    4/13, 3:34pm
    

    Jeff Prager
    

    
    

    
    

    the noise, the vibration, the clouds, the remains, the size of the remaining beams, or length, the elements in the dust most specifically, all spell out what happened and what happened, based on a wealth of evidence, good, solid, reliable evidence, and evidence that would be allowed in a court, proves much more than we're being told happened on 911. Much, much more. Now, based on financial data, banking information, court cases and a wealth of additional data, all good data also, the case can be made for a myriad of financial players to have been intimately involved—from the fed and the Bank of New York to almost every other major banking institution. I'm not sure what more is needed. In fact, if one follows many of the "Israel Did It" leads, an incorrect final hypothesis in my opinion since NATO, Canada and intimate US players were also involved, still, those leads generally implicate close American players, security company's, etc. So there's no shortage of very good evidence and very good speculation for that evidence for a court case. I believe almost every aspect of the event has been established.
  • 

    4/13, 3:39pm
    

    Jeff Prager

    
    

    
    

    so Judy Wood appeals to those who haven't closely studied the event, for weeks, or months and even years, which is everyone.

    

    Did Susan McElwain Shanksville see this object?

    
    

    I wouldn't know that.

    No no knows that. No one asked her to draw it either. It seems like someone sets up the possibilities and ask only a few questions and that's 9/11, just a big ball filled with unknowns ..

    remember the "rooftop rescue by helicopters" what happened to there video of the second plane?

    
    

    I;m not following you on the choppers

    What happened to their video of the second plane?
    Why didn't anyone bother to ask or demand NYPD Aviation for the original footage???
    http://911truthout.blogspot.com/2014/08/911-nypd-police-helicopter-and-flight.html

    

    NYPD aviation subtracted Flight 175 from the record | Correcting the false narrative of 9/11

    911truthout.blogspot.com

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    Seen 8:31pm

    9/11 Only Explosives Can Create These Kind of Shear wave elastic S-wave
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    mikerevs34

    16 hours ago

    LINKED COMMENT

    Can't understand this upload.
    Did the buildings wtc1&2 come apart in huge chunks which made their way towards the ground trailing dust?
    Is there a seismic recording of those huge chunks hitting the ground or not?

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    danp5648
    

    4 hours ago
    

    No but the huge chucks i.e the world trade center perimeter wall  was quickly removed by 18th
    
    ground shaking sound was recorded here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOhVucl_QUQ
    
     perimeter wall gone by 18th
     http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/danp5648/media/quickiecleanup.jpg.html?o=74
    
    core still standing and perimeter wall gone
    http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/danp5648/media/insidejobniggas.jpg.html?o=75

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    mikerevs34
    

    1 hour ago
    

    "No but the huge chucks i.e the world trade center perimeter wall  was quickly removed by 18th"
    
    No? The huge chunks didn't hit the ground?
    remember gravity?
    
    Try again if you want.
    note:answer MY questions, not the ones that lead an agenda/narrative or presume my reasoning.

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    danp5648
    

    1 second ago
    

    +mikerevs34 The huge perimeter column where blown and photographed in complete sections 20-35 floors long side ways OVER WTC 3. That force to explode 10,000 tons of perimeter columns OVER WTC 3 are the shear waves.  When the 20-35 floors of perimeter columns hit gradually both sideways and down. Did you see the photographs I provided and listen to earthquake?
     

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