Molten Ground Zero Debate With Tarik Alsafi

Tarik Alsafi

Answered Sat

You are mistaken because that is not molten steel. It premature to claim that it was molten steel when Aluminum from the plane and cladding of the building could melt at much lower temperatures. We know that the highest recorded temperatures in the twin towers were around 1800F . We know that Aluminum could melt at 1220F. It could also be glass that has been softened by heat. No one has done a metallurgical analyzes of the object in question so it’s premature to assume that it was molten steel when there are other viable alternatives

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Dan Plesse

Sat

“We know that the highest recorded temperatures in the twin towers were around 1800F . “ not true

“"Consequently, the museum conducted additional research, analyzing the heat levels that had created the fused material. Scientists determined that, at heat levels in excess of two thousand degrees Fa...

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Tarik Alsafi

Original Author · Sun

“"Consequently, the museum conducted additional research, analyzing the heat levels that had created the fused material. Scientists determined that, at heat levels in excess of two thousand degrees Fahrenheit"

Omitting part of a quote from your source to provide further credence to your own theory is just as dishonest as editing your source. This was the FULL quote (capital letter is my emphasis

"The museum hired specialist to perform forensic testing and analysis of two large composites and several smaller pieces that had broken off. All tests for microscopic traces of human DNA were negative, BUT THE MUSEUM KNEW THAT THESE TESTS WERE SOMEWHAT INCOMPLETE because scientist could test only the composites outside the surface: testing the interior risked destroying the artifacts. Consequently, the museum conducted additional research, analyzing the heat levels that had created the fused material. Scientists determined that, at heat levels in excess of two thousand degrees Fahrenheit, the possibility of there being human remains withing the composites was exceedingly remote”

Battle for Ground Zero

As you can see they were testing for human remains on the artifact and , to their own admission , their test was incomplete. Also on page 216 on the same source it said “Bits of paper and edges of filing cabinets that weren't melted poke out on the surface” So it was hot enough to fuse metal but not hot enough to burn the bits of paper? very telling! Furthermore NIST said that the highest temperature they recorded was 1800F and further stated that in normal building fires and hydrocarbons generate temperatures can be as hot as 2000 degree Fahrenheit!

“In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).” FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation

“Aluminum in molten form in air looks just like molten lead. So aluminum is out and a stupid thing to say.”

You are an imbecile! how dare you call me stupid after making such ignorant comment. Here is why you are wrong again!

"But aha!", the truther will say, "molten aluminum is silver—not bright orange!" Richard Gage, founder of Architects & Engineers For 9/11 Truth, made this observation in a lecture of his:

"We're told by NIST that this substance must be melted aluminum from the airplane. But, melted aluminum looks like melted aluminum! It's silvery. It doesn't glow in daylight conditions."

It is correct that aluminum is silver at relatively low liquid temperatures—but heat it past a certain point and it glows bright orange. An article on 911Debunkers.Blogspot concedes this, but goes on to argue that it's bright orange only within its container; once poured, it immediately silvers. AE911Truth makes the same assertion:

"Molten aluminum appears silvery when poured in daylight conditions, even if initially heated to the yellow-white temperature range in the crucible."

911Debunkers links to a video showing this to substantiate their claims. In the video, a guy heats molten aluminum to 1800*F, or almost 1000*C, and while it is bright orange within its container, it instantly turns silver when he goes to pour it.

The obvious drawback to this demonstration is that he's using a very small quantity of aluminum. This is like half a Pepsi can's worth of aluminum. It's like he found three paper clips in his desk and he's like: "Alright, time to melt these babies down and do some science!"

You can find other videos of larger quantities of molten aluminum that aren't just bright orange within their container, but remain bright orange as they're being poured. Here's a video

of an aluminum manufacturing factory, posted by LA Machines on YouTube. As we can see, the molten aluminum is a very bright orange color, and we see no signs of it turning silver as it's being poured. I mean Christ, I almost had to put on a pair of sunglasses just to watch this video!

That was another source for poured molten aluminum. Notice it’s color!. Here are more pictures of molten aluminum

Debunking 9/11 Truthers: "Molten Steel = Thermite From Controlled Demolition!" — A Skeptical Human | Anton Dybal

“No one has done a metallurgical analyzes” We don’t need a test to know what the bright red light is and what remains in the that area. Steel was only material remaining at the core area of both towers.

there is no indication that picture was taken near the core area of any tower. Anyway Just think about what the debris pile would've looked like and consisted of. It's not like everything after collapse would be neatly partitioned, like "Over here, in this area, we have the steel, and over there, in that area, we have the aluminum." No, all of these different building components would be mixed together and intermingling.

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Dan Plesse

14m ago

Quote A Skeptical Human | Anton Dybal
“Number one, I've been unable to find any lab test results conclusively proving that this thing does, indeed, contain previously-molten steel. “ Yes we NOW have these test results.

So what does he do with these results? He conflates the search for human remains with molten steel and anything else that helps him feel better about 9/11. Its all about feelings. I am sorry your feelings are hurt, but you are WRONG and this is only one small example.

Fire Fighter Scott Schrimpe Molten North Tower Core Tower has a public display Table which shows you are wrong again!

Part #1 SOMEWHAT INCOMPLETE was about the search for human remains NOT molten steel evidence. The possible discovery of human remains is likely not possible because the heat was too high. i.e BEYOND 2,000 degrees!! Hello!!!

The fused material they did test was COMPLETE. Jerk!

The quote was about human remains and also high temperatures. "Consequently," means different topic then human remains i.e MOLTEN STEEL.. 

“ Consequently, the museum conducted additional research, analyzing the heat levels that material. Scientists determined that, at heat levels in excess of two thousand degrees Fahrenheit, the possibility of there being human remains withing the composites was exceedingly remote”

Part #2 I said "molten aluminum is silver—not bright orange!" Is still correct! I You are using smelting equipment or foundry equipment to show what happened on 9/11. People were NOT using smelting equipment or foundry equipment to show orange glowing objects to a camera.

Show ME or ANYONE  bright orange aluminum WITHOUT using smelting equipment or foundry equipment anytime on earth. Go outside, light a fire and pile on the aluminum pipe and SHOW the results like a normal person! 

Part #3 "there is no indication that picture was taken near the core area " Wrong again

The location was the core and photos are online.
Harry

Ground Zero Photographs (September-October 2001)

Questions about rights or reprints to gzphotos@textfiles.com
Ground Zero Photographs (September-October 2001)

In closing, none of what you believe is true.

“ No, all of these different building components would be mixed together and intermingling.” Nope steel was in the center. wrong!

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Mohammed Atta, Israeli moving companies, Psychic Friends and a dead handyman

sf911truth ›

David Rovics and 9/11... 2 posts by 2 authors

Carol Brouillet

8/17/16

http://songwritersnotebook.blogspot.com/2016/08/mohammed-atta-israeli-moving-companies.html

Just got this from David Rovics...

Wednesday, August 17, 2016

Mohammed Atta, Israeli moving companies, Psychic Friends and a dead handyman

I'm not much for doing research into the activities of intelligence agencies. And I'm not involved with any groups doing this kind of research, aside from playing the occasional benefit concert. But anyone out there who is involved with researching what happened on September 11th, 2001 might be interested in what is below.


First I'll just introduce what it is that is below. This is something that was recently written up by a friend of mine. I'll call him Michael.

I first met Michael over twenty years ago. I know him originally through musical circles. Michael prefers to remain anonymous if possible, which means in this case that I'm the one vouching for his credibility. So I'll just say now that Michael is a highly intelligent, gifted, mentally healthy person who wishes harm to no one. He is only putting this information out there because he thinks it seems like the right thing to do. He is not delusional, and I'm sure that everything below is as accurate as he can recall.

Before I present you with Michael's recollections, I want to just say that none of this convinces me that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by Dick Cheney and his henchmen. Maybe everything Michael remembers is stuff some of you who do this research already know. For me, it just raises more troubling questions about the role of various US and international intelligence agencies in all kinds of nefarious activities.

Here's my slightly edited version of what Michael shared with me:

9/11 and the Hollywood Bread Building

With the 15th anniversary of the September 11th, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States coming up, I decided to write down what I know about what lead up to them. You see, I knew Mohammed Atta.

I should have written this down years ago, but for the first years I feared for my and my family’s lives, and after that had passed, I guess I just wanted to put it behind me. I am sure that after 15 years, I might have some details wrong, but the core story is correct.

The Building

The Hollywood Bread Building is a 10-story building overlooking Young Circle Park, the central park in Hollywood, Florida. It is currently abandoned and according to the papers, there are violent 'floor turf wars' being fought inside by the people squatting there.

But in 2001, it was filled with many small businesses, including mine. I could see Young Circle from my 9th floor windows. That’s where Shuckums was (and maybe still is) – the oyster bar where the 9/11 hijackers last got together to have a meal together, before boarding their flights to murder thousands of people. It was first widely reported that this happened on September 10th, but I believe that timeline has been revised. I have made the conscious decision not look up any facts about 9/11 now, for fear that it would influence or shape what I remember.

I worked together with an employee of mine in these offices on the 9th floor – let’s call him Joey (not his real name). As soon as Mohammed Atta was fingered to be the ringleader in the attacks, both Joey and I almost fell out of our seats. “That guy??? We know that guy!”

Joey would hang outside the front door a lot, because he smoked and wasn’t allowed to do it inside the building. So did others from other floors. Atta was a frequent visitor to our building. What’s interesting is who else was renting offices in the building.

The tenants

There was Moishe and the Israeli 'social club' on the 9th floor. They’d come in in the late afternoon and stay until all hours of the night, sitting on couches and making phone calls on the speaker phone in Hebrew. I often worked late, sometimes until midnight, and they’d be there with the door open, assuming that all other tenants were long gone.

Then there was the 'trucking company.' They were Americans, in a very small office on the 9th floor that probably rented for about $350 a month back then. They started moving racks of computer servers into that office.

This intrigued me, since we built rack-mounted computers for a living. I was intrigued why a company that was renting a $350 office was moving in what looked like at least $100,000 worth of computer hardware.

And what on Earth could you need that kind of computing power for, if all you were doing was keeping track of a very small fleet of trucks. I asked the guy. He had no comment and ever since that day, they kept their door shut.

And then, there was the 'moving company.'

These guys also spoke Hebrew. I remember as if it were yesterday. Talking to a young guy who worked for them, outside the door, where they were smoking. I welcomed them to the building and asked what they kind of work they did.

The young guy didn’t seem to know what to say. When he started to say something, an older guy shut him up and said “we are moving company.” Then he told the young guy to put out his smoke and come inside with him.

What do these three companies have in common?

Well, on September 12th 2001, they were all gone! Like they were never there. Offices cleaned out and left without a trace.

The radio station

Across from our office was what was described to us as “an illegal underground Greek resistance radio station.” Seriously, you can’t make this shit up!

The FCC would come raid their offices and take all their gear. Then they would get new gear and go back at whatever they were doing.

One morning, I came to work to find a SWAT team stacked up outside their door, with submachine guns, combat gear and all. I turned around and left for a bit. When I came back, the SWAT team was still there, but now more relaxed.

I tried to get into our offices, and noticed that the door lock was upside down. You had to put the key in, flat side up -- now it was the other way around. I asked the cop who seemed in charge, whether they had broken into my office – he said no, they had not.

An hour or so later, there was a knock on the door. It was that cop again.

He came in and sat down in my office, and asked me if he could ask me some questions. I told him that I might consider talking to him if he stopped lying to me.

So I asked him again, “did you break into my office?”

He half-smiled, like a school boy caught in a lie, and said, “yeah, we did. Sorry about that."

After asking me many questions about what I had observed in the building, he asked me, “did you know your office is wired everywhere?”

I had no idea. He removed a ceiling panel and showed me that there were indeed cameras and microphones in the ceiling. Our offices had been the Greek’s offices before they moved across the hall.

The officer asked me whether I had ever seen a man named Gus Boulis in the building, associating with the main radio station guy. I had not.

Boulis was a Greek mobster, hiding behind a front of semi-legitimate businesses. A couple of months later, they found him in a parking garage in Ft. Lauderdale. He had been shot, assassination-style, with a bullet to the back of the head.

The whole radio station thing probably has nothing to do with 9/11 and is just a bizarre secondary drama.

Johnny Cowboy and the 10th floor

And then there was Johnny Cowboy (not his real name).

Johnny was an interesting fellow. He acted as handyman for the building, and offered car washes to people parking in the lot across the street.

He never said much, but Joey and I saw him all the time and were friendly with him. He looked like a cowboy out of an old Western. While he scowled at most people, he seemed to like us and actually spoke to us sometimes.

The 10th floor had been home to the Psychic Friends Network when I first moved in. Later on, it became a technical school, and then it was empty.

It was different than all of the other floors – you couldn’t get into the floor without a key. It was off-limits to all. But Johnny Cowboy had keys.  And I think he crashed there from time to time, as well. Meaning, Johnny knew everything that went on in the building at all hours.

One day, I came to work and saw fire trucks outside the building. When I got in the elevator, I noticed that a horrible stench had enveloped the whole building.

Turns out someone found Johnny’s decomposing body on the 10th floor. There were strange cops in the building, the kind with suits, sunglasses and earpieces.

I asked what happened.

"Looks like he drank himself to death. They found a bottle next to his body," a firefighter answered.

Joey and I looked at each other, puzzled.

So I said, "uh, Johnny didn’t drink."

The cop told us that we don’t want to go around asking too many questions, and told us to move along.

Could Johnny have been a recovering alcoholic and had a relapse? Possible. Could he have seen something in that building at night that he wasn’t supposed to? Possible.

The FBI

Joey and I struggled for a while after September 11th, whether we should call the FBI and tell them about Atta hanging out with the Israelis. After a few days, we did. They took our numbers. Nobody ever called us back or followed up.

In conclusion

So there it is, best as I can remember it.

The Israeli social club, the 'trucking' firm with the server banks, the Israeli 'moving company' whose employees didn’t seem to know what business they were in – all went poof on September 12th.

The Greek resistance radio station with supposed mob ties and a bullet to the back of the head.

And Johnny Cowboy, who drank himself to death or saw something he shouldn’t have. One bizarre story, isn’t it?

Memory is a funny thing, and I’m sure I have messed some details up. But I wanted to write it down exactly as I remember it, before comparing notes with Joey or researching on the internet.

A few months after this happened, I closed my company, sold our house and went on a multi-year RV trip with my (now ex-) wife.  I didn’t feel comfortable being able to be easily found.  Not having an address seemed just fine with me.

For at least the first year or two, I fully expected that someone would probably find me and Joey, either victims of unfortunate accidents or more likely, with just a single gunshot wound to the back of our heads.

I didn’t tell anyone about any of this for years, out of fear, but then decided that if someone saw us as a threat, we would have been long gone. In a sea of conspiracy theories, anything is easily discredited. I don’t have a theory – I just know what I saw. I don’t claim to know what it all means.

Joey and I check in with each other every year on 9/11 to cheer at having made it yet another year.

Chuck

8/19/16

Carol,

When I click the link, I get this message: "Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.” I wonder if David Rovics removed it.

Chuck

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