Take the 9/11 "crush down" challenge
(two anti-truthers go down so far)
Draw a circle
around where you think the object which is causing the pancaking exists in this video using a
still image via screen shot from "Cliftin Cloud North Tower
Collapse:" and submit image below
or Draw a circle around where you think the object which is causing the pancaking i.e magic "gravitational force" exists in this next video
"North Tower Collapse"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVs97TRFP1k
from 0:03 onward and create a still image via screen shot and submit image below.
a few seconds ago · Edited · Like · Remove Preview
Fred de Koning Maybe it's because English is not my native language, but I don't understand what this is all about. I don't see what a pancake has to do with all this, for example...
Dan Plesse Fred de Koning review
Debunking Novas Pancake Theory of WTC using common sense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdQh18kvpRU
www.youtube.com
Please Visit INFOWARS.COM for the truth about what's really going on....Do it fo...See More
Ron Morales Or maybe use an actual video of the entire collapse.
The "object" that is causing the downward collapse? I guess that would be called "the building."
Dan thinks that the 600,000 tons of mass in each Tower disappeared into another dimension.- Dan Plesse Ron Morales please draw this magic "600,000 tons of mass"
- Ron Morales Don't need to draw it. Here's a picture of it: about 600,000 tons each (though some claim a million tons each). There's nothing magic about mass. Is that how you responded to every scientific analysis in your science classes: "Oooh! Magic!" And are you claiming that the mass of those buildings somehow disappeared somewhere?
- Dan Plesse I didn't know your "600,000 tons of mass" was the towers in general.
Are you saying another set towers were dropped on the old towers?
"nothing magic about mass" yet there is something magical about YOUR mass.
why are you eferring to the towers in general?
Can you please just follow directions.
- Ron Morales "What is material at the beginning and ending of video."
The falling mass of the building. You know, these really big buildings collapsed. That's news to you? - Dan Plesse perfect then.
please draw a circle of "The falling mass of the building." using either one of these two videos. Directions are contained within in the link below. Good luck!
Take the 9/11 "crush down" challenge
http://investigatesandyhook.blogspot.com/.../the-911...
- Ron Morales Dan believes that all the mass of 600,000 ton buildings just disappeared and thus no "gravitational force" was involved. Is he putting "gravitational force" in quotes because he doubts such a thing exists?
- Dan Plesse Why don't you put a circle around the object which is causing this "gravitational force" or Mr. Pancake .
and Take the 9/11 "crush down" challenge
http://investigatesandyhook.blogspot.com/.../the-911...
| From | Subject | Date |
|---|---|---|
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Re:ads by Google
I thought they were calling it a "progressive collapse" nowadays.
Much like global warming is now called "climate change". Pancake,
piledriver & progressive collapse all seem like the same candy bar
in different wrappers to me. However, I'm guilty of tuning the disinfo
pushers out so maybe I've lost track.
It's funny how they have to contest every little fact isn't it. I've noticed they try to isolate individual events & explain them because trying to explain how all of that bullshit happened together will sound even more absurd. Better for them to focus on one carefully chosen aspect & explain it in excessive detail to conceal the fact it's non-sense. Most people wont read a long comment. The fact they have to rely on every single angle they can create is proof they know they're spreading lies. |
- Dan Plesse The late start time in no way effects your ability to identify your magic pancake. Please respond according to the requirements. Text will not be accepted as form of a response.
- Ron Morales There's nothing "magical" about potential gravitational energy, unless you think physics is magic. The potential gravitational energy is in the mass of the 600,000 ton building.2 hours ago · Like
- Dan Plesse Ron Morales Please circle this "mass of the 600,000 ton building." or magical pancake in the above video as requested.
- Ron Morales
lol. I'm supposed to draw a circle around something that's not there? The beginning and end of the collapse are edited out of your video. That's obvious. Heavily edited. - Dan Plesse "The beginning and end of the collapse are edited out of your video"
Does this mean your pancake reappears at the end hence the reason for not showing the ending?
What is missing from the beginning which is material to your argument if it turns into a dust cloud and go missing a second later? Hence the whole point of my argument and its the defeat of your argument.a few seconds ago · Like
- Ron Morales Nah, I'm not going to work with doctored videos. I'll stick to video of the entire collapse rather than one that dishonestly edited out the beginning of the collapse and focused on one brief image where a dust cloud obscures the building.
Believe it or not Dan, but there WAS a building there before that dust cloud appeared. - Dan Plesse Some of the the dust cloud is in the background. Some of the dust cloud is exploding in all directions and nothing is on top pushing down and that is the whole point.
1. ATL+ Print Screen
2. Ctrl+V inside an editor
3. Select a drawing tool.
Use only
Cliftin Cloud North Tower Collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjpL6BdyYP0
You must complete this task first, you have 72 hours to point to the materials which "crush down" the other floors.
Or you can confess that no floors exist to "crush down" anything and the whole official concept is a hoax.
a few seconds ago · Edited · Like · Remove Preview
Jeffrey Harr I'm not a structural engineer. I try not to venture off into that area.
Dan Plesse Well
its an open challenge and I could offer money however the point has
been made and hiding behind a degree or not having having a degree does
not remove the basic fact that no materials were above the "crush zone"
to crush anything. The magical theory of pancakes has ended and with it
the official story. The structural engineer who made up giant pancakes
should head to jail.
- Dan Plesse Well then you have accepted the challenge? Well done.
I am still waiting for your answer on this other issue.
- Dan Plesse It sounds like you avoid the issues and making up random issues. You have backlog of unanswered questions and a history of avoiding.a few seconds ago · Edited · Like
Jeffrey Harr It was your random post. I was just wondering what the point was. Apparently, there is none.Dan Plesse So that's two anti-truthers down. Ron also turned down the simple task of visually identifying the issue of the magic pancake crush down theory. I figured you would be up to the task. I guess not.
- Ron Morales Already answered. It was the ten floors above the collapse initiation point. Now you have 70 remaining hours to answer my questions.
- a few seconds ago · Like
Dan Plesse You have 70 hours to complete all requirements without alternatives . If you can't complete the requirements as designed you have to confess that the official is a scam and a hoax.a few seconds ago · Like
- Ron Morales Dan, why should anyone rely on your heavily edited video which excludes the beginning of the collapse and is designed to capture a moment that obscures the top part of the building falling into the lower building, rather than an unedited video of the entire collapse?
- 3 minutes ago · Like
- Ron Morales Your edited video is like taking a video of someone planting a bomb and then the bomb exploding, editing out the part of the bomb being planted and then only starting at the point of explosion, and then asking someone to screen shot the picture of the explosion and circle the bomb. Not very scientific or logical.
- Dan Plesse I looked at your video and I looked at my NIST edited video (starts a second later) however they are the same. The home video is closer and allows for drawing...
Do you understand the requirements? Do you concede?
- Ron Morales I don't concede because A. I already answered your questions, and B. It would be intellectually dishonest of me to rely on a heavily edited video of an event rather than a complete, unedited video of the event, and you haven't explained why anyone should rely on your heavily edited video of the event. I'm not about to be forced into intellectual dishonesty. I'd rather be honest about the matter.
- Dan Plesse
A.
I already addressed the NIST edit issue and it should not interfere with your task. If it did, I would not ask an unreasonable question.
B
" I already answered your questions"
NO your only response was:
" Dan. Not good with screen shots and drawing in lines (have no idea how to draw on a screen shot)"
which I then provided details How-to. I was NOT asking if you knew how to take and draw on photos.
You now have 60 hours to go.
C. intellectual dishonesty issue: makes no reasonable sense and is denied as a factor because A. above was addressed. i.e NIST started the event a second later which makes zero difference and is not a material factor and all videos SHOW exactly the samething, therefore the only " intellectual dishonesty" is you making an manufactured " intellectual dishonesty" claim knowing all video show the same exact sequence regardless of when NIST starts the video. So that issue is dismissed.
Do you concede?
- Ron Morales I already said no and I already answered your question. Do you concede? Yes or no? You have yet to even attempt to answer my questions.
- Ron Morales So Matthew are you claiming that the upper ten floors of the building disappeared into another dimension? Otherwise, where do you suppose those tens of thousands of tons of mass above the collapse zone went to?
- Dan Plesse Matthew is NOT on this thread and your response so far was not accepted as an answer to ANYTHING!
Please just concede.
Your questions have also been denied. Please answer.
Dan Plesse A "sharp spike of short duration" is how seismologist Thorne Lay of Univ. of California at Santa Cruz told AFP an underground nuclear explosion appears on a seismograph.
http://911review.com/errors/wtc/seismic.html
www.911review.com
Numerous websites have repeated an erroneous interpretation of the seismic recordings as evidence that bombs in the basements of the Towers severed the core columns at the onsets of the collapses.
- http://www.journalof911studies.com/.../RousseauVol34Novem...
This is a study of seismic signals recorded at palisades, and published by the lamont Doherty earth observatory on 9/11,
Dr Rousseau hypothesises that only strong explosives could be the cause of such seismic waves - Dan Plesse Doug Pitcher Not only that but the precision of the location has been withheld and LDEO (Kim) will only make assumptions about the location. All emails to LDEO have not helped at all.
- Dan Plesse Low-Yield Earth-Penetrating Nuclear Weapons
http://www.fas.org/faspir/2001/v54n1/weapons.htm
- Ron Morales What's the point of that message from a USGS guy Dan. Sounds like he's acknowledging that it's hard to read such seismic signals. So what?
- Ron Morales "A "sharp spike of short duration" is how seismologist Thorne Lay of Univ. of California at Santa Cruz told AFP an underground nuclear explosion appears on a seismograph."
So what? A tornado sounds like a train but that's not evidence that trains are ...See More - Dan Plesse He is avoiding the answer and 100% of of all other blasts received ALL 4 floating point numbers. Never has a blast NOT received ALL the data. They are hiding, just like you.
Seismologist Thorne Lay is looking at 9/11 seismograph, that's so what. No more "so what's".
Stop avoiding and concede already.
- Ron Morales And since you're not an official of this group, you can't "officially" close this thread, particularly since no one has conceded anything. However, if you don't answer my questions within the time limits, then you do concede the points I raised in such questions, per the rules of this group.
- Dan Plesse Your questions will not be addressed until my question is addressed. My question can only be address with a photo screen shot identifying the magic pancake you claim exists, using the video I provided by NIST and a screenshot with a circle. You have avoided this question by manufacturing issues that do not exists and manufactured other off topic questions. These off topic questions will not be addressed. I closed the thread because you refused to draw a circle identifying your UFO flooring.
Let's make this simple. Can ANYONE provide any evidence that any of the booms or explosion like sounds heard on 9/11 were from actual demolition explosives?
Dan Plesse Ron Morales
" What precise evidence is there of explosions at perfectly timed intervals?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqOxLWXR-uY
The video above shows the perfectly timed intervals of sound bursts during the collapse sequence and also shows evidence sound editing which is an criminal act.. Please play the video.
www.youtube.com
9/11 eye witnesses say: This group says 9/11 explosions were 1. Many and contain an upward force. 2. location a. below ground and under the b. Federal Reserv...
Whatever removed your pancake from existence is also evidence of explosives.
Draw a circle around where you think a pancake i.e magic "gravitational force" exists in this video using still image via screen shot and submit image below.
Take the 9/11 "crush down" challenge
http://investigatesandyhook.blogspot.com/.../the-911...
You refused to take that challenge and started NEW threads to avoid that issue.
Don't forget
9/11 Emergency Medical Services Non stop reports of explosives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpIX4-YcuA
Atahan Ganduu Um, well whatever theory you guys come up with it must account for the towers mostly turning into dust in midair.
- Dan Plesse Atahan Ganduu that's the point of The 9/11 "crush down" challenge. The "potential gravitational energy" is shifting off center and decreasing to point that it no longer exists and still a major portion of the building remains WITH 16 people who manage to write books about the whole mess from stairwell B or the center at the bottom.
The challenge kicks in when you ask "them" to identify their beloved pancake. The North Tower has the least amount "potential gravitational energy" to start out with but both towers loose their "potential gravitational energy" too fast to be a factor.
- RECENT POSTS
Dan Plesse created a thread with a heavily edited video and asked me to identify what caused the downward gravitational collapse of the North Tower. I replied on February 9 at 5:59pm PST with the following, accompanied with the following questions. Dan has not yet answered them and thus has about 12 hours left before a final 48 hours before he concedes that he has no answers:
"Rather than your edited video, he's the full collapse of the North Tower collapse Dan. Not good with screen shots and drawing in lines (have no idea how to draw on a screen shot), but to answer your question:
The collapse begins at the 1 second mark. Notice the lowest blackened floor. That's where the collapse began. What caused the entire thing to crush down were fires on that floor weakening steel supports and causing all the floors above that point to fall onto the next floor, which could not withstand 10 floors of building falling on top of it and so it collapsed, adding to the mass which then collapsed onto the next floor, and then the next all the way to the ground, and rapidly.
- Dan Plesse The requirements were
"Draw a circle around where you think a pancake i.e magic "potential gravitational energy" exists in this video using a still image via screen shot and submit image below."
http://investigatesandyhook.blogspot.com/.../the-911...
- Dan Plesse The late start time in no way effects your ability to identify your magic pancake. Please respond according to the requirements. Text will not be accepted as form of a response.
- Dan Plesse Your reply on " February 9 at 5:59pm PST " was denied because it did not meet the requirements and your follow up questions are an attempt to avoid my question. This follow questions were also denied until you fully meet all of the requirements of my question.2 minutes ago · Like
Larry Sera in a nutshell, the perimeter columns below the impact zone did not get crushed but rather got ejected outward by the loss of their connections to the floor slabs and the pull down force of the core. What the slabs experienced is not only 1 g but rather 10 times g and thus the fast collapse- Dan Plesse Larry Sera perimeter columns at the bottom remained standing and so did the core of the North tower so no downward force exist at all and therefore no source to cause an earthquake by those means at least. So Ron Morales is incorrect on all accounts. Not only that by his magic pancake was blown up i.e the hat truss was never found.
- Ron Morales "The late start time in no way effects your ability to identify your magic pancake. Please respond according to the requirements. Text will not be accepted as form of a response."
I have no obligation to draw pictures for you Dan nor rely on doctored, dishonest video.about an hour ago · Like
- Dan Plesse "You don't get to choose which questions to answer Dan" your question is meant to avoid , sidetrack and obfuscate my question. Your question should have been on a new thread and open to the group and was off topic. So that issue is closed.
Your new issue of regarding "questions and rules" is defined as more sidetracking and more avoidance.
You don't go into detail about the "heavy editing" because again, no heavy editing exists and you can not identify this editing using drawing tools.
The question was then directed to the anti-truth community and no one has returned a valid result.So this topic of using drawing tools to prove the existence of Mr. Pancake has been settled with a default win by the Truth Community because no one from the anti-truth community can show Mr. Pancake visually. End of story. End of debate.
The home video by Mr. Cloud is the unedited version of the events.
John P. Flanigan You have broken open the case! Take this information to the insurance companies and you will make millions! Don't worry, I know you won't actually do anything.
Example of what not to send:
Example #1
a few seconds ago · Edited · Like
owen
4:51 PM (19 minutes ago)
to meyou have defined the terms in order to make the opposing argument false. straw man, as if you didnt know.
i could say "show me in this frame the thermite, i.e. fake untested magic method for demolishing buildings, or else i am right by default." if people dont take these "arguments" seriously you cant really blame them.
Dan
5:03 PM (6 minutes ago)
to owenThe terms are only a video from "Cliftin Cloud North Tower Collapse " which is a home video of the North Tower.Are you saying that "Cliftin Cloud North Tower Collapse" is an anomaly and thus a "straw man".Did you review the video?I am not sure if your example applies until you can define the "straw man" as an anomaly or not.
owen
5:14 PM (28 minutes ago)
to me
this phrase:
defines pancaking as something magic. straw man. your opponents arguments are defined as not real from the beginning. you are attacking a charicature of the argument, not the argument. how much clearer a straw man can there be? do i have to circle the straw man for you to see it?
Draw a circle around where you think a pancake i.e magic "potential gravitational energy"
- Ron Morales OK, here you go. The mass that's crushing down is in there:
https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/.../1743655...
- Dan Plesse Your reply of " is in there" sounds like faith and looks like an explosion. Do you confess then the "mass" can not be seen during or after and it pure faith and government propaganda and not science which is guiding your believes?
You also agree the communication tower has drifted to the left therefore Mr. pancake's force (which you can't see or identify) has also drifted to the left which also reduces its effectiveness gravitational forces because it is off center and pulling away from the tower.
Under the communications tower should still be the core.
- Ron Morales " Your reply of " is in there" sounds like faith."
No, it's based on the concept of "object permanence" that most human beings master by the age of one. Just because you can't see something because it has become obscured by something else doesn't mean it has disappeared into another dimension. When a thick fog rolls over a city do you actually believe that the city ceases to exist when people can't see it any more and then comes back into existence when the fog lifts? Do you believe your loved ones cease to exist the moment they close a door behind them and magically reappear the moment you see them again?
" Do you confess then the "mass" can not be seen during or after and it pure faith and not science which is guiding your believes? "
Obviously not. See above. It is not remotely a scientific notion to think that something ceases to exist the moment a cloud obscures it. In fact, that would be a fundamentally irrational belief.
Where do you think the hundreds of thousands of tons of mass went when it was obscured by a dust cloud? - Ron Morales "You also agree the communication tower has drifted to the left therefore Mr. pancake's force which you can't see has also drifted to the left"
No, it means that the communication tower has drifted to the left. Did it fall to the side? No.
" which also reduces its effectiveness because its off center and pulling away from the tower."
That would only make sense if that mass under the tower fell to the side, yet it didn't. It fell straight down, allowing the mass to crush down as would be expected of 50,000+ tons of mass.
- Dan Plesse Nothing is obscured, its just not there. Your object or Mr. Pancake is long gone. The dust cloud is not large enough to obscure or hide an invisible object with sufficient mass to cause the right amount of downward force to blow outward as well as down...See More
- Dan Plesse The person who doing the obscuring is you Ron Morales. Look at the two photo examples. Notice you picked the photo which hides the most details and the communications tower is clearly falling to the left.
- Ron Morales Since the dust cloud billows outward as the mass falls downwards, obviously the dust cloud is going to be larger than the falling mass, and thus would obscure the falling mass.
Where did the mass go Dan? - Ron Morales I didn't "pick" a photo. You asked me to take a screen shot and I did. I could have screen shot the very beginning which clearly shows a mass of 10 or so floors falling downwards.
Where did the mass go Dan? - Dan Plesse The dust cloud which billowing OUT is YOUR mass decreasing and becoming less effective with every millisecond.
"Where did the mass go Dan?" Judy Wood title to her book "Where did the towers go" btw. YOUR Mass is decreasing and spreading all over lower Manhattan. YOUR mass is long gone.
You can see into the dust cloud using the correct home video which I provided which you steadfastly refused to use. Then I said you can use your video and you jumped at the chance. Now we can see why you suddenly had a change of heart.a few seconds ago · Like
- Ron Morales So what's the problem Dan? Where do you think that 50,000+ tons of mass in the upper floors went when it started falling downward?
- Dan Plesse The X + tons of mass in the upper floors decreased in mass as time moved forward and by .03 seconds the mass was gone.
Smithsonian blooper 9/11 Witness Rumbling Sounds right before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr3MdlqYPiY
NY State Museum Dustified Gallery 9/11 artifacts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnW3IL8XtFo
- Ron Morales Uhm, maybe because the dust cloud is to our left and to the right is the side of the building?
Where did the mass go Dan?
Dan seems to be suggesting, since he won't answer directly, that, contrary to fundamental principles of physics, hundreds of thousands of tons of mass just magically disappeared.5 minutes ago · Like
- Dan Plesse The mass is inside that dust ball and spreading out like the photograph is depicting. No "magic pancake man" Ron Morales
Philip Joy Why are you still arguing about visual evidence which isn't definitive. What about asking where the mass which hit the ground was when the dust cleared? Ask what the eyewitnesses saw after the dust had cleared. Engage in a discussion about the debris 'pile' and whether there was enough mass left of the 500 000 ton building. Then you will agree where the mass of the building went, whether it fell to the ground or became dust.- Dan Plesse Philip Joy I asked Ron Morales to point out the mass this video:
Cliftin Cloud North Tower Collapse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjpL6BdyYP0
This video also received 90 shares in one day by an organized group of people normally connected with Judy Wood.
He refused to point at subject matter. So the matter was closed.
Summary of his replies are collected above
The visual evidence IS definitive and thus you most likely don't know about http://911datasets.org/ or the FOIA NIST releases. Correct? or don't care or don't understand something to with torrent whatever is let me know.
Most 9/11 Truthers don't know where to look or what to look for and people like Judy Wood is not going to help.
He pointed at a cloud and is said "it is in there" You can't see it, but trust me and it was never found and no one has ever seen it but its there is pure nonsense.
People photographed the building by air, rooftops and from every angle and no one sees a giant object falling and crushing anything after three seconds the "block" is long gone, end of story. Plus 16 (not 14) people are still alive who were in the path of this magical object he claims exists. Did the magical object go around these people or pass right over them? What happened, he don't say. So the evidence of a crushing object with groups of hanging around in it path is NOT only thin but should be elevated to pure insanity.
-
- Ron Morales Dan asked me to draw a red circle on the photo. Thus he asked for an edited photo. Is it possible the drawing on the photo had some effect? I blew up the photo from my album and saw no green line. Perhaps whatever Dan did to the image put that green line on it.
Pointless however. Anyone can just watch the video and see a building start from intact, and then the upper section starts falling downward, and then we know in the end that there was over a million tons of debris at Ground zero. The mass of the building had to go somewhere, and the logical direction was down with gravity.
Dan is suggesting that all that mass somehow disappeared (which is physically impossible) or somehow half a million tons of concrete and steel could magically be suspended in a dust cloud and just float away, which is obviously ridiculous. - Dan Plesse Why don't you produce another one of your screen shots and stop talking about it and place it online for everyone to see it Ron Morales? Its intellectual dishonesty to NOT do so otherwise, which you already have done. Popular anti-truther fallacy: don't try to figure anything out or ask questions and never show the results and group and conflate ideas complete with bias conformation.
" I blew up the photo from my album and saw no green lines" who said anything about "a green line"??? Ron Morales
"Dan is suggesting that all that mass somehow disappeared "
No .. I said the dust ball contains the your magical pancake theory i.e the block and disperses the contents away from the towers. like the videos and photos say and will continue to show. Your argument is based on a fraud.
and I am not suggesting that, that's what really happened. End of story...
Museums will also show the evidence of what really happened and tell my story and guess what Mr. Pancake can't be found. Why don't email the NY State Museum and ask for your Mr. Pancake man or ask for any evidence at all. NY Police Museum also said the rock formations were from molten lava, not Mr. Pancake.
Will you be buying some Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities today sir? I am sorry sir, that was well known fraud perpetrated by thousands of people if only you cared to investigate you would have known better.
WCBS NIST Dub #4 - WCBS Helicopter WCBS NIST South Tower 2 Explosion Slow
2 comments:
In some videos of the WTC 2 collapse one can see the top of the building get blown to pieces. The mass that was there at the start doesn't last long yet the collapse remains constant as though it were. No such piledriver can be seen on the ground after the dust clears either.
Ron is using disinfo tactics because he can't explain this.
Checkout this
WCBS NIST South Tower 2 Explosion Slow Slow /motion building Explosions Download
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnETho980p0
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